Live from Money20/20 Middle East: Moving money, shaping futures

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Veronique Steiner: Hello.

Lori Schwartz: Hi.

Veronique Steiner: You're listening to J.P. Morgan's Making Sense. I'm Veronique Steiner, head of EMEA Innovation Economy at J.P. Morgan Payments, and I'm joined today by Laurie Schwartz, global head of Treasury Services. As J.P. Morgan Payments our payment solution help clients move money around the world with $10-trillion in daily payments processed across more than 120 currency in over 160 countries. Very impressive. We're here today at Money20/20 Middle East in Riyadh, where banks, fintechs, regulators, startups, and more are coming together to really learn about the latest and the greatest. So Lori, what's most exciting to you about being in Riyadh today?

Lori Schwartz: So firstly, being here with you, of course Veronique is always a pleasure, but I think in general it's amazing to be at the first Money20/20 in the Middle East, and specifically in Riyadh, the buzz is just palpable in the air.

Veronique Steiner: So maybe could you tell us a little bit what you think is the most exciting for banks and fintechs in the Middle East these days?

Lori Schwartz: Yeah, I mean there's so many threads to pull on there, but I think specifically it is the way that different markets across the Middle East are embracing financial services, whether it be provided through banks, partner through fintechs, PSPs, MSBs, TP3s, I like all the acronyms, and so to do the countries and so the regions. And so what that is creating is an ecosystem for innovation for clients at the forefront, for experience and for progressive cash management, which as you said, we move $10-trillion a day. And whether it's investment in financial services themselves or visions like Vision 2030 in Saudi Arabia, which also has ambitions of industry and growth, well, someone's got to pay for it and someone's got to make that payment happen and we're happy to do it.

Veronique Steiner: And now we see a lot of traction, the creation of true fintechs in the region, et cetera. And what do you think that there's, if we protect ourself in the next five years, what do you think would be that line to innovation, and what do you think are the biggest challenges of these innovation that could arise?

Lori Schwartz: I was talking to one of our colleagues earlier today, and I was like, open banking becomes the encompassment of so many things. So firstly, it is the access to information. It's then the sharing of that information, which brings a whole bunch of other considerations into the mix, but ultimately to help individuals and consumers, and through companies and banks themselves, basically create and or take down barriers to how money moves across the industry and across the world.

Veronique Steiner: And that's totally true. And there's this putting down the frontiers type of willingness of everybody to become global and have more money movement, less friction, I would say. In terms of the technology investments and advancements in the last few years in the payment space, both in the Middle East and around the globe, we have seen things like digital payments coming through. Could you maybe walk us through some of the exciting changes you're seeing?

Lori Schwartz: Yeah, and I think it starts with a saying that we've been talking about for kind of a while, which is liquidity is at the beginning and end of every payment. And the reality is as payments have begun to move faster and the expectations of payments is that yes, they move faster, but also that they reach broader. So that's our cross-border payments, cross-currency payments, you mentioned the 160 different countries in the world that we can access. So has become a challenge to how technology meets the expectations of the future. And I think whether it be through the blockchain directly itself or the advantages that it provides tokenization in a means of exchanging both the information and the payment for simultaneous, or as a lot of our partners in Kinexys like to say, the atomic settlement of that cash, it really creates a new frontier by which you can effectively create complete and trust that completion of the payment. We believe in tokenized deposits for a variety of reasons. One, because it's going to expand the way in which cash can move around the world whilst providing the safety soundness and security of the fact that at the end of the day, that is your money that's being sent or your money that's being received. And as I often like to joke in wide forums, we can go around a room and we could ask each person individually, tell me the top three things you care about. And you'll probably hear some consistent things like family and friends. But if I rephrase the question and I ask you, do you care about your money? Every single person is going to answer yes. And as a bank at the global nature of J.P. Morgan that we have, we have a huge responsibility in ensuring that money moves soundly, securely, and as fast as it needs to meet today's expectations.

Veronique Steiner: And I'd like to stick a little bit on that last part on security. Obviously the innovation technology is really exciting, but things change really quickly and tech evolves and it's sometimes hard to keep up. So how are regional players and multinational corporations balancing innovation and security?

Lori Schwartz: They go hand in hand. I mean, innovating responsibly is mission critical, number one, right? So I think in a variety of ways, embracing the fact that that risk control, safety, soundness, we can use all the words that fit in that mix are paramount, I think allows us to think both creatively, but also make sure that the most important factor of trust remains in the system. I think there is areas in which we can prototype test out proof of concepts, but ultimately our business is one built of scale. And that scale is critically dependent upon ensuring that both the technology protocols, the risk, the regulations that we adhere to, and ultimately that the data that's surrounding all of the things that we do every day is extraordinarily protected.

Veronique Steiner: And for sure. And I think that we see more and more companies looking also to invest in this part to make sure that the experience for their end users are the best. And so where do you see J.P. Morgan fitting in this evolving financial ecosystem in the region?

Lori Schwartz: We will celebrate 90 years in Saudi Arabia. I mean, that is just quite extraordinary. And our commitment to the region is deep, not just because of the history that we have, but because of the future that we believe in. And so last year we expanded our physical footprint. So we've been in the United Arab Emirates for many years as well, but more as a people and reaching those markets. Now we actually have local cash management services and we're super proud about our growth and launch in the ADGM, Abu Dhabi Global Markets. In some ways, I think it's just the beginning, but our commitment to the region, mainly for the opportunities it presents to the importance it is to our clients, and frankly the very important role that the Middle East is playing in global commerce. I mean, we've seen the, I'll call it the emergence, but I realize it's a trend that's been here for some time of the corridors between Asia and the Middle East. And so in a business like ours and treasury services and payments, we are just about moving money, and we'll move money where our clients need us to be. And that is hugely important in the Middle East and a growing part of our business.

Veronique Steiner: And if we unscale a little bit from the region, would you like to tell us the trends that you're looking out for these days and what you think, we were talking about the five-year plan, et cetera, and the protection innovation, but if we look more globally, where would you measure the success of J.P. Morgan in innovation in five years?

Lori Schwartz: Yeah, and I give credit where credit's due. I think there is an extraordinary amount of creativity that we've brought to the business over the last couple of years. We've talked about some of that through Kinexys, and frankly testing the boundaries of how can we make money move faster. There for so long, for so many reasons, I think we've accepted friction in the mix and there is an element of healthy friction. We want that when it comes to things like safety and security, but the expectation, the needs of the business are extraordinary. And so embracing that 24 by seven thinking creatively about how we connect last mile RTP to FX is a huge part because individuals, our customers, clients across the world, they're growing. And I think we saw not to continue to talk back about life post pandemic because it has been about five years, I guess almost at this point. But I think just the change in buying behavior, the bricks and mortar being replaced in many regards with commerce, how comfortable, and you'll know this very well, so maybe I'll flip it around here and can ask you a question, but I think that's really challenged the pace at which we can move and the pace at which we can innovate. Our commitment is there, our growth, our investment, and at the end of the day, we will and continue to be a major player in cross-border payments and boundaries of the world are feeling a lot closer in that regard.

Veronique Steiner: And it's true in the innovation economy world. We see it every day with our clients. It's very interesting how this ecosystem made of fintechs and disruptive commerce, we see that evolution that is sometimes also triggered by the regulatory evolution as well of what's available not. But we're seeing more and more of our marketplaces wondering how they should be in or out of the flows, how can they have that seamless experience for their clients? So it's really interesting to see the shifts, which is also driving our innovation and our vision.

Lori Schwartz: Yeah, I loved that shift over the last couple of years, of really the treasurer, who is such an important part of our client relationship, becoming a business enabler, right? Because to your point, if they're not ready to accept, make or partner to get that payment executed, the business ambitions can get limited. And so finding a variety of ways, whether it be through core cash management provider, here's the account, here's the rails, and we'll help you manage the liquidity management around that all the way through our embedded finance. So helping our customers grow quicker and actually create a multifaceted relationship to encourage and allow those marketplaces to come to fruition a bit quicker. You didn't ask about it, but I'll go also a little bit on a sidebar of, I think what's going to continue to be important in that is the customer experience that we bring. So we can all pull out our mobile apps and have a variety of views around all the different ones that we use. But I think-

Veronique Steiner: What's your favorite?

Lori Schwartz: Honestly, I like Google Maps.

Veronique Steiner: Oh, very. (laughs)

Lori Schwartz: I just like to know where I'm going. So I didn't go the finance route. I'm not going to pick that one. But I think in general, what we have in our consumer life being there in our professional life, and that's probably an area that I think we've underpenetrated in or under focused on in history, definitely increasingly more important. And if you want to go through the value chain of the payment, starting with the experience around that payment is going to be critical.

Veronique Steiner: And just a last point, it's true that you were mentioning that the role of the treasurer, I think that what we see more and more is also how the other functions within all these corporate companies come into play because they realize that the need for data, the need for them to be able to develop solutions, which usually encounters some form of a payment to have a better user experience. So it's really understanding also all these different buying census was a corporation to make sure that they also work together hand in hand to make that as seamless as possible. Sometimes I feel that we help that drive that because we just ask these questions where it takes them to, oh yes, that's going to be with procurement, et cetera. I think we're a trusted advisor, hopefully also on that part.

Lori Schwartz: Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, I think connecting, whether it be the product, the procurement area, and the treasury to thinking about things that include, yes, the business model, what countries, what markets the customer wants to reach, what licensing, what regulation comes into play. And also the cost model. Because in any company in the world, and I say this recognizing the absolutism of the statement, but genuinely believing it, there is no more expensive asset on a balance sheet than cash. But making a lot of these business models work when you are, for example, in the flow of funds, when you have regulated safeguarded, client, money, cash, those are all considerations that come into the mix. And so how equipped the corporate treasury is to understand, and I've been saying this for years, you know it well, visibility control and optimization become increasingly paramount in history of more recent, it's been so much focused on corporate cash. How do we help you taking money from your customers payer, your suppliers, and those traditional B2B type payments as business models have expanded. And especially when you go down the route of marketplaces and licensing and otherwise, you now get a whole realm of third-party money cash. And so the requirements around that could be different, but the importance of managing is increasingly the same.

Veronique Steiner: Hopefully we can help in all these methods

Lori Schwartz: We do.

Veronique Steiner: Any other final thoughts before we close this amazing podcast?

Lori Schwartz: I think, again, I have to just reiterate how much is happening in the Middle East. And so this is my third trip to the region just this year. And it never ceases to surprise me when I meet with the people at the company, our clients, the regulators. There is just such a joint commitment to the growth of industry, the growth of financial services, and the encouragement to innovate, which is just super exciting and really pleased to be here.

Veronique Steiner: Well, thank you so much. This has been, as always a real pleasure, Laurie, to discuss with you. Thank you for providing so many insights and for joining us here at Money20/20 in Riyad. Thank you for listening to all the listeners around this and this episode, sorry, was recorded on the 15th of September 2025, just to make sure that we come back in two, three years and refer to it. Thank you so much. Great.

Lori Schwartz: Thank you.

Veronique Steiner: Bye-bye. Bye.

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