Vietta Grinberg: Hi, I'm Vietta Grinberg, I run sales product within digital markets for J.P. Morgan, and I'm joined today by Adam Walker in our investor client management group. Adam, welcome, before we get into most of the conversation, perhaps get us started. Tell me about your career and your career journey.

Adam Walker: Well, it is a pleasure to be here with you, Vietta. Thank you for sitting down with me and I'm looking forward to hearing about you as well. My career started 22 years ago at J.P. Morgan, so as folks at J.P. Morgan say I'm a lifer. I started in investment banking, I did that for two years and then it moved over to rate sales. And over the course of the next 17 years, the market evolved quite a bit. I think I officially joined a derivative sales group, which then evolved into a rate sales group, which then evolved into macro sales, to give you an idea.

Towards the end, I ended up managing a team in North America rate sales for hedge funds and asset managers, and I also was responsible for asset managers and hedge funds on the investor side globally for all macro products. Two and a half years ago, I was lucky enough to move over to the investor client management team, as you mentioned, as a senior relationship manager. And now I cover some of the largest clients holistically on the market side of the business. You and I have both worked in a number of different areas together. I think it may have been six or seven years ago when we worked on a specific team together in rates on something. Are you a lifer at J.P. Morgan?

Vietta Grinberg: So I'm not a lifer at J.P. Morgan. I came to JP about seven years ago now. Before JP, I was at another [inaudible 00:01:57] bank, but the way I started my career was actually in technology. I started my career working Lehman Brothers at the time as a programmer, always focusing on the fixed income electronic trading aspects of the business. Eventually I transitioned to a product role at another bank where I was focused on building products for customers. And then an opportunity came up and it was a really unique opportunity to come to J.P. Morgan where my first role at J.P. was focusing on building client intelligence solutions. And that's when you and I were working so closely together.

So I worked on the client intelligence tools for our fixed income sales force and for our clients. That was obviously an interesting experience, as you can imagine with all the data and all of the flows and all the information that we get to see at J.P. Morgan was quite the challenge, so we can talk about that a little bit. And then there was an opportunity to run sales product globally. So in addition to focusing on the client intelligence tools and the analytics, also looking more at the business automation side, and that's essentially what I'm doing right now. But before we get into that, Adam, quite a journey for you. So obviously transitioning from being in the product seat and being in a very transaction heavy business, which obviously interest rates is. And now top of the house ICM that like and what are some of the differences or similarities? This seem like very different roles.

Adam Walker: They are quite different roles and it's an interesting question because the first thing that pops out of my mind or into my mind is not how different they are, but maybe a similarity. When I was in the product role and when I was leading a team, it was still about waking up every day and asking myself what clients needed, how we could service clients the best, what are they thinking? And I really do the same thing in my current role. Now the thing that they're asking about or what I'm trying to service for them is different. In a product role, it's much more about what a portfolio manager needs to do in a certain product on that day.

Now it's more about across different products, maybe how they do business. And I think it's interesting you mentioned when we used to work in the client intelligence role previously, we really worked hard on facilitating direct flow within the business of rates and how to do that quickly and efficiently. And now we work together and it's a much more holistic view of the client and you'll ask me questions, you know, "How can your day be easier?" And my response is, "How can a client's day be easier?"

Vietta Grinberg: Right. For sure.

Adam Walker: And I think that when you're looking across businesses, not only can you service the client within each business, now that I can see, whether it be credit rates, FX, emerging markets, equities, but you can see similarities amongst those businesses. And we can build efficiencies across those and learn lessons in each of those products and the clients want to... They want to hear about that.

Vietta Grinberg: So Adam actually building up on that, you've been in this industry for 20 plus years, how do you think things have evolved and how does J.P. Morgan continue to play given that the field has changed so much? So when you started in bond sales early on in your career, what was the market like then and what was the experience of a salesperson then? Versus how is it now and how is J.P. Morgan remaining as competitive as we are through this evolution? What are your thoughts on that?

Adam Walker: It's funny you say, I think we call it fixed income, but when I started it was bonds. We call it bond sales or bond trading-

Vietta Grinberg: Yeah, I know, like bond sales, bond salesmen. Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Walker: And it's a funny story. The first time I was ever on a bond trading floor, what we call a fixed income trading floor, I sat down with somebody and I didn't really know much about how things worked, how banks made money, how clients made money. And the bond trader that I was sitting with, he picked up his phone which had a cord on it, on a trading floor, and he said, "This is the market, this is the bond market." It was a phone, it was plastic phone. And I kind of looked at him and said, "What do you mean the phone?" He said, "Well, you think about the equity market or stocks and you think about the NYSE, and you think about people running around on a centralized trading floor." Whether it be in New York, London, Philadelphia, back in those days. And then you think about, "Okay, well maybe the bond market is not..." There's no centralization. The bond market is being transacted on the phone with each other from bank to bank, from client to bank. And then you realize that market's enormous, and it's not centralized.

Now obviously the phone is no longer the market, and you think about the course of 20 odd years, where did it go from being just on the phone to where we are now and where is it going? And if the bond market was people picking up the phone and calling other banks on that phone and we are in the center of that market, I think we have a responsibility to help evolve that market, think about that market going forward. And how do we think about that market going forward? Well, we're facilitating that market for our clients and with our clients, so the clients are part of the conversation. So anything that we do, and I think it's the reason why you and I talk so often is because you're building products. And we are not building the product in a silo, we're building that product to help facilitate liquidity for our clients. So maybe it used to be a phone and then it was a chat. And where it's going to go next, we're not going to decide we're going to decide with clients together.

Vietta Grinberg: I definitely observed that as we work, whether it's client intelligence tools or some of the workflow automation tools that we are developing. Our strategy has certainly always been, we want to meet our clients where they want to be met, but we also want to be thinking about the future. And with that, there's a lot of responsibility and a lot of considerations for how we build our products. Thinking back to when you and I worked together building the flow analysis tools, J.P. Morgan sees so much flow. J.P. Morgan is in the middle of so many transactions. You can actually get a sense of the market sometimes by visualizing a lot of these flows. Now the way we do it, we always had to be very thoughtful because on the one hand you want to build a product that's going to be empowering and useful to our clients and to our sales force. But at the same time you have to be thoughtful about how you protecting our client's information.

So that's always the approach that we have to keep in mind. Now, when I look now at how we are investing in some of our execution platforms, it's the same thing. We want to be there where our clients want to be met, and of course, electronic trading is not new. It's been around for decades. To the extent that our clients are working with us through vendors and third-party platforms, we are there. We're there on all those platforms. At the same time, I think we realize and our clients realize that when you are transacting through some of the third-party platforms, you are working to the lowest common denominator. You are essentially providing the tools and the products and the streaming pricing for the products that everybody else is doing. That's why in addition to that, we are also putting a lot of emphasis on our proprietary technology, be it direct API connectivity or be it the products that we give to our salespeople, we're now also offering directly to our clients.

I'm often reminded that because of the size and the complexity of our business, we have to handle so many different products. So if I'm going to work with my team and if I'm going to work with you, Adam, and with a lot of your colleagues in sales to build the best-in-class products for our sales force. And if they're going to work for our sales force, they will also work for our clients. At the end of the day, sales has always been a representation, as you said, of what the clients need.

Adam Walker: Yeah, and if we're doing our job, and I say, "Our" as in the sales force investor-client management, we're articulating, we're communicating with our clients and we're communicating that back to you. And everything that they tell us is ingrained and partnered in our businesses and how we build those platforms. It's interesting on that note about asking clients, when I ask clients, "What is it that is important to you?" Always on the list is liquidity. Always-

Vietta Grinberg: Interesting. Interesting.

Adam Walker: And a lot of people immediately when they think liquidity, they think price. And of course price is important, price is potentially the most important. But when we do send out surveys once in a while, and I do have conversations with clients, the other parts of liquidity is dependability and scale, not just price. Because you can always make... Maybe, not everybody, but most people can make a good price when the market is deep and the prices are stable. It's when the prices are not stable and the market is shallow when we hope and need to be there for our clients. And whether that is through the phone like I had mentioned or an electronic platform, that's very, very important to clients.

And the reason it's important to clients is because often during those times is when the trading, the investing, the redistribution of their assets, they really need the liquidity. So when we think about how we're doing the things that you're mentioning, whether it's a client tool or a sales tool, the facilitation of that liquidity is very important to the dependability and the scale that we can provide clients across a whole bunch of venues. Whether it be third party or whether it be a single dealer platform or whether it be on the phone or in a chat, really.

Vietta Grinberg: Talk to me a little bit about your team. Do you mainly hire people with sales background or what's the makeup of your team and how is it different? Again, sitting in the product seat and the transactional side versus now in ICM, what do you look for and what does your team look like?

Adam Walker: Sure. So the ICM team is structured a little bit different than a lot of the markets teams. And part of the reason is that we cover the top 120 clients on the investor side in markets, and we roughly have between five and 10 clients each. And the way to think about it is we are responsible for covering the senior folks at these institutions for some of their most strategic ideas. And we also on the other side make sure that the sales force and J.P. Morgan is earning the market share that we want to earn. That group of people is typically hired from, like myself, a previous business management role or a fairly experienced individual.

However, we don't do all of the work. We have a lot of folks which are called client account managers, which are more junior folks, and those are people we hire out of undergrad. And typically they grow up learning about our clients from front to back to make sure we're prepared for speaking to those clients about some of the strategic opportunities. And in hiring those individuals, it's been interesting because throughout my over 20-year career, it was a fairly straightforward proposition. Hire yourself onto a sales and trading desk, work a whole bunch, learn something and then figure out how you're going to make a living. The workforce is different these days. One, the generation is much more likely to move around jobs. Two, there's a much more deliberate learning. And three, as you know, there is a vast array of technology and tools that these individuals can build and learn and use, to enhance their day job.

Vietta Grinberg: Right.

Adam Walker: The third part's interesting because the skill set for that may be different than the original, which is find a job, move along, apprenticeship model, move up and earn a living. It's a little bit more collaborative, I think. It's a little bit more open-minded, and it's a little bit more learning about not only the product and the product set, but it's also learning about the technology that you can use to learn about that product set and be more efficient.

Vietta Grinberg: Yeah, that's interesting. I've been reflecting on my team and how we try to optimize and structure our teams on the product side. I find that sometimes it's a challenge because on the one hand, I very much want our teams to be very much embedded in the business. We sit on the trading floor, we sit in the same role with sales and traders, we're in the same chats. We collaborate incredibly closely. Sometimes the concern that I have is we become too product-focused as opposed to more horizontal client-focused. So another part of where we spend a lot of time and focus is trying to make our products horizontal. And investing in teams that are not only going to be embedded on the particular desk or in a particular product and become really deep experts in that product. But who are going to be working on more horizontal solutions and having line of sight into every asset class, and then constantly looking for similarities and bringing those things together so we can have as much consistency as possible.

And then the last layer is our investment in our CRM platform, and this is where we really try to challenge ourselves as opposed to saying, "Great, we're going to have a CRM solution for macro versus spread versus equities," we try to very much build it around a client. We're going to have insight in CRM and workflows around our clients and how we cover them and the products feed into that, but all the folks that work on the CRM products of our team are horizontal and think about it from a client perspective. So it's a tricky balance to strike sometimes for us, I think, because like I said, you want the guys to be product experts and that also gives you credibility, right? Like somebody's going to work with Adam Walker, you have to know what you're doing. So you do have to be a product expert, but we constantly try to balance it out and be as horizontal as possible in what our product solutions ultimately are. And that ultimately gives us scale and that ultimately gives us what I think is the best class solution for our client.

Adam Walker: Let me dig into that a little bit more with you. If you're looking forward... You mentioned CRM in particular, but if you're looking forward and on a more general basis, and you're looking to hire somebody internal, external, maybe from undergrad. What are the types of traits you look for in somebody you're looking to hire with the future in mind, given the future's evolving very quickly and you're really on the cutting edge of that future?

Vietta Grinberg: Yeah, I mean, look, I think coming into product, we have people on our team who come from sales, who come from technology, who come from business management, who come from ops. So there isn't one formula that you have to have this background to be successful at product. And in fact, I welcome that diversity and I welcome that diversity of mindset and skillset and background. That's great for us. The skill set that I value and I look for is, I guess, I would say two things. We play offense, not defense. It's about challenging the status quo, thinking ahead and coming up with innovative ideas that are not necessarily obvious. So playing offense, less defense. And also knowing when you don't know, I think that's actually pretty important. I would rather have a person who joins the team and asks a lot of questions, and challenges through the questions as opposed to just defer to an opinion of a senior salesperson or a senior trader.

So those are the types of skill set that are pretty important. We tend to hire, like I said, from all walks of life, obviously understanding of financial markets is important, so that's key. But some of our best product guys are from ops or from sales or from tech or from vendors. And that diversity really, really works for us. So yeah, there is not one specific skill set that you need to do well in a product seat. Honestly, we hire people from sales, technology, trading, ops, business management. It's really that diversity of background and of mindset that I think makes for a really successful product person and a product manager. I would say some of the things that we definitely look for... I would say probably two things. You play offense, not defense. So you don't accept the status quo, but you very much think about, "Okay, I understand the current process. How can we make it better? How can we streamline it? How can it be automated? How can it help my client?"

And really it's the fact that the team is so diverse and comes from so many different walks of life and so many different experiences is what ultimately makes it work. We juggle lots of things to be successful in a product seat. You're talking to salespeople, you are going on meetings with clients and hearing the voice of the client. You're working with technology, you're working with our QA partners, you talk to programmers, you talk to QR, our strats, the gamut is really wide.

Adam Walker: When we were speaking about our interaction, I remember the first time, maybe not the first time, but we were I think driving towards automating some of the processes in rate sales. And when we talk about understanding the business, the communication between products, their client intelligence, and my role at the time rate sales, the real goal was automation. And we met a few times and then you came to me and you said, "In the process of a trade, you do 36 things."

Vietta Grinberg: I remember that.

Adam Walker: And I was blown away at, one, the attention to detail, but how many things we actually had to do to get from point A to point B to close of transaction. And you said, "We're going to automate most of them." And I remember thinking to myself, "Wow, this is a process I definitely want to be a part of because of those 36 things, I definitely don't want to be doing all of them." And I think through that process really again, the communication, but getting in our head as a sales force and understanding what it is we do down to a fine point. And what tasks are meaningful, what tasks are differentiated by a person and what tasks truly can be automated in scale really enhances the job of a salesperson and is super important. And through that process, obviously you learn by doing, we understood the importance of automation, but not only that, but of the product sales team because you can't do it without truly understanding the essence of what we do. And it's been great from a sales perspective. I remember the next year we were talking about the automation point being it makes the job more fulfilling. Because we have times, say that out of the 36, you probably cut down 35 to be honest, but let's just say you cut down 30. And the other six were things that, trust me, if you could, you would have automated, but those are more fulfilling things for sales force.

Vietta Grinberg: That's right. I remember that.

Adam Walker: And knowing how to challenge it and saying, "Is this the best way just because you've been doing it for 15 years?"

Vietta Grinberg: Exactly.

Adam Walker: Is this the best way?

Vietta Grinberg: Exactly.

Adam Walker: And I really think that that's the challenge in the future. And I think we were mentioning teams and we were mentioning hiring people. And I think using technology to do that is going to be what's on the forefront of how we're going to work together really in the future.

Vietta Grinberg: No, for sure. I agree. So when I think about the products that we built and the evolution. As I was saying earlier, when dealers build towards integration with a third-party vendor or a third-party platform, sometimes it's building to the lowest common denominator because you're essentially building what everybody else is making available within the market. The challenge that we've had is we cover a very complex and sophisticated market. We are experts in a lot of markets and we have depth of expertise in a lot of markets. So that means the types of products that our salespeople have to handle are complex and sophisticated. A lot of them haven't been electronified yet. My team spends a lot of time figuring out a way to automate those products that haven't been automated yet at all. Right? So that really means not only working with our sales folks to make sure we automate their part of the workflow, but also working with our trading desk to automate a lot of the pricing for products that in many markets were not automated yet.

And that makes it for an interesting challenge and that makes it for some interesting dynamics on the trading floor for sure. But I do believe the fact that we're starting with our internal sales force is the right approach. Because ultimately when we work with our sales teams, the testing and the scrutiny that comes from working with our sales desk, I think will ensure that the product will work for the clients as well. Right? No salesperson... Well, I've never met one at least is going to say, "Ah, it's good enough." "Eh, they'll take it." The salesperson's going to want to know that it works every time. Back to your other point, it's there for scale and it's there for any market conditions. So the fact that our salespeople are the first ones to test the product and to give us a lot of critical feedback gives me a lot of confidence that the product will ultimately work for our clients as well.

Adam Walker: Yeah, I remember being there with you. And automation can be scary. And when you work with the sales team and you work with the traders, I only think it takes one meeting for everyone to realize that this is going to make everyone's job not only easier, but more fulfilling. You get to do more of the things-

Vietta Grinberg: 1000%

Adam Walker: ... that can't be automated, which I think is important. And I think it's something that I really... Since you've been at J.P. Morgan, we talk about a lot. We talk a lot about with the juniors, we talk a lot about with the seniors to make sure that the electronification of some of these markets is only going to enhance your job. It's not going to take your job away.

Vietta Grinberg: No, for sure. I think on the point of fulfillment, that's really important. Ultimately, I can't imagine some of the kids that are joining our industry now-

Adam Walker: Young adults.

Vietta Grinberg: Young adults. Some of the young adults that are joining our industry now coming into where we were 25 years ago, 30 years ago, writing tickets by hand. People don't do that. People have become accustomed to the convenience of a smartphone and the streaming technology that we have in our everyday lives. And the expectation is the same happens in finance.

Adam Walker: Yeah, I think when you look over the course of time, all the way from when I sat down on a desk and we were picking up phones with direct lines to call people. To now, I don't know the exact percentage, but I guarantee that most of the trades are not done on those phones anymore.

Vietta Grinberg: Of course.

Adam Walker: And the question is, during that period of time, are we going to be deliberate about it? Are we going to make it the best? Are we going to sit back and watch it happen? And I'm glad that we work together because I feel like not only are we trying to make it happen, but we're trying to make it happen in a way where we're listening to clients, where we're listening to salespeople, where we're listening to traders. And really trying to make the experience better without letting it just kind of happen.

Vietta Grinberg: Ultimately, we always try to give more time back so that we can spend more time with our clients and we can listen to our clients better, we can provide better client service, and everything else is adding scale. And it's obviously not just on the sales side, it's also pushing on the trading side and partnering with our colleagues in electronic trading teams to make sure that the pricing aspect of that is also automated as much as possible. And this gives us more time to talk to our clients, understand what their needs are and how can we drive the business forward.

So I remember exactly how my transition happened from being a coder to working on the trading floor. I worked in a team where all my management was based in London, and I was in New York with a team of programmers in New York. And there was a problem one day with our tech, and there were very annoyed salespeople and traders calling my managers in London. And I got a call from my boss in London and he said, "You better go down on that trading floor and talk to those salespeople and those traders and make sure they're okay."

Adam Walker: I have a feeling, annoyed is a light term.

Vietta Grinberg: Annoyed. Annoyed. Annoyed. Correct. So I was like, "Okay." I went down on the trading floor, they were upset, and then they said, "Okay, well this system doesn't work." And I had my notepad and my pen and I said, "Well, let's take a look. Let's see where the problem is." And then they said, "You know what? We have a seat right here. Make sure you sit here until this problem is fixed." So I went and I grabbed my purse and I came down on the trading floor and I'm locked in and worked through the problem. And then my boss called me from London and he said, "You know what? We have lots of programmers. We're going to need you to sit on the floor." And that was my journey of moving away from being purely in the technical field, which by the way, I loved. And there's this creative aspect to writing code, which I definitely missed at the time, to moving closer to the trading floor and working with our users, working with salespeople, with traders. To ultimately understand the business better, understand the products better, and contributing in a different way.

Adam Walker: That communication is so important, especially coming from a sales seat and being in a senior relationship management seat that I'm in today. That communication with people like you in the product seat and the product sales seat and the technology is so important. And we touched on it previously, but without that communication and without that understanding and without that collaboration, it's really hard to get things done.

Vietta Grinberg: Right. Agreed.

Adam Walker: And it's really hard to get things done because speaking to just a coder, or "just a coder," they may not know the ins and outs of the business and learning that. So I'm happy you made the transition.

Vietta Grinberg: Right.

Adam Walker: Is this where you thought you would be in your life, career-wise? When you were younger were you thinking to yourself, I wanted to run a digital product sales team?

Vietta Grinberg: Well, honestly, I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up. So the answer is, I don't know. I'm most likely, no. I came to this country and went into technology because this was a hot field and people hiring, and coders were in demand. So that's what you do. And I ended up taking a job, working in technology on Wall Street because I was in New York, and this is who was hiring, banks were hiring, and they needed people who could write code for them. And it's really through an evolution of mentorship, chance, opportunities that I ended up moving a little bit further away from being very technical and closer to building products and working with clients and working with sales and working with traders.

Ultimately, no, of course, I didn't think when I was in college or even younger that, "Oh yeah, I'm going to be a product manager in a major bank," nor do I know if this role really existed back then, the way it exists now. And honestly, that's part of what's so cool about our industry. You don't have a predetermined path. So when you come in and you join finance, you don't kind of stay and stick in that role. Our field offers an opportunity to do lots of different things and get exposure to so many different aspects of this market. That's why I think it's just such a fantastic industry to be part of. What about you?

Adam Walker: Well, interestingly, I didn't have a ton of direction when I was younger, other than playing sports and going to school. And I took a... We took a survey test in seventh grade to try to figure out what we were most suitable to do when we were older, and mine came out to be a toll taker.

Vietta Grinberg: Excellent.

Adam Walker: Which in retrospect makes sense because I like to be outside and I like to handle money and do math. So-

Vietta Grinberg: There you go.

Adam Walker: ... it totally... Maybe it was less probably intricate and advanced to some of the technology you work with, but it gave me a guide. But in all seriousness, I did think I would work in finance. I don't think I knew how much the financial world evolved over the course of time, and I don't think that it would be possible for me to understand many of the roles. Because when I was younger, some of the roles, potentially your role, potentially my role didn't really exist.

Vietta Grinberg: Didn't exist.

Adam Walker: And particularly in the markets area, in the '80s, it was levered bonds and SPG and securitizing mortgages. In the '90s, it was dot-com, IPO. In the 2000s, it was the evolution of the-

Vietta Grinberg: Electronic trading [inaudible 00:36:23]-

Adam Walker: ... electronic trading, and then rates markets, rate derivative markets. And now we're going through private credit, we're going through back... We're going through all of these different things. So it's really hard to know that you would want to be part of something that doesn't exist at the time. The one thing I'll say that's very interesting about J.P. Morgan is that I made a change two and a half years ago, and I went from managing a sales team to being a SRM or a senior relationship manager.

And I had spent the previous 17 years in macro. And over the last two and a half years, 20 years into my career roughly, I was able to move into something and learn about something on a daily basis-

Vietta Grinberg: That's awesome.

Adam Walker: ... at such a wide... Credit, equities and market structure, how our clients think, all of those different things. And I think that the number one way to learn, is to talk to other people, really dig into those things. And the access that I'm able to get at J.P. Morgan is, it's really mind-boggling, to be honest with you.

Vietta Grinberg: It really is. It's very unique, right?

Adam Walker: Yeah. I was saying in the rate sales seat, we would interview juniors and they would say, "What's the advantage of working in rate sales?" And I would say, well, you work on a desk. This is the room. There's like 50 people in here between sales and trading. There's like 50 people in here. We have number one market share. We're the largest bank in markets. You sit in the area that facilitates the capital flows that go on globally, and you get to learn, understand what they are. There may not be a place of any job that you could learn more about the financial plumbing than sitting in this seat at this bank. And that's one seat. And then having the opportunity to move around the bank is just-

Vietta Grinberg: It's so unique.

Adam Walker: It's so unique.

Vietta Grinberg: It's so unique. I agree. And I was talking to a colleague just the other day, similar, has been in the industry for 25 years, did banking, sales, and he said the same thing. He's like, "I'm still learning. I'm still learning in my seat today." And I think that's just an awesome thing about our industry and certainly unique about JP, this opportunity to move around and see different aspects of this bank. It's incredible.

Adam Walker: So speaking about the aspects of the bank, and there are hundreds of thousands of people at J.P. Morgan, you have the opportunity to interact with a lot of those people, particularly in the markets-

Vietta Grinberg: On the market side, yes.

Adam Walker: On the market side, probably some in banking, payment…

Vietta Grinberg: Sure, sure.

Adam Walker: Who would you choose? If you could choose one person to have lunch with, who would it be?

Vietta Grinberg: Okay, look, off the top of my head, I'm going to say Jen Piepszak. Jen just got this big promotion. She is co-heading the CIB with Troy. I think she's had a fascinating career. She's been at J.P. Morgan for a very long time. My understanding is she got started in finance and business management seat, and she's made a lot of moves and she's made a lot of transitions through her career. So I just think that would be a very interesting person to talk to, to learn about her journey, and also hear her thoughts on markets. Because this is a new business for her, so I'm just curious for a person who's coming in from a fairly different business, what are her observations and what are her thoughts on how we do business and what could we do better? What about you?

Adam Walker: I mean, it's funny, I had a meeting recently with this person. It was more of a committee meeting, but it would probably be Filippo Gori. And the reason is because he spent so much time in Asia, right? He was the Asia CEO, and now he is moved back or "back," but he's moved to London to be the EMEA CEO along with co-running banking. But I think his perspective on seeing what's going on in Asia where that's been really a growth engine. There's a lot with China and how we handle that region, how we've handled that region in the past and in the future. He's really got an interesting look at the growth of the investment bank along with the growth in Asia that's happened over the last decade or so.

Vietta Grinberg: Yeah, that would definitely be interesting.

Adam Walker: He's a busy person.

Vietta Grinberg: He's a busy guy.

Adam Walker: He's a busy person having recent... But I'd really like to pick his brain a bit.

Vietta Grinberg: No, that makes sense.

Adam Walker: I also love having lunch with juniors-

Vietta Grinberg: For sure.

Adam Walker: Yeah. I mean, sometimes the interaction can be more of a working interaction and then sometimes it's nice to get kind of off campus and hear what their world's like. It is very different living in New York and London than it was when I was... 20 years ago.

Vietta Grinberg: 100%, 100%.

Adam Walker: And kind of starting your career and hearing the challenges and all of those different things.